Guess there will be more PROP 8 posts. LOL No, I’m not explaining myself, you can just deal with it. 
Well, not really Prop 8, but related none the less. I don’t like just replying in the comments, because it is hard to address every topic. Instead I put the two comments I wanted to respond to here. The first is from Eric. His writing is black, what he is quoting of me is orange, and my stuff is purple.
Deidre (look how pretty it is when spelled right! 
)
“To be honest, I don’t remember name calling you . . .”
You called me an idiot (on two occasions), a bigot and weak-minded, and it wasn’t sarcasm. I can tell that perhaps this name calling isn’t a big deal to you, however I’m not used to it in rational conversation, in fact, rational conversation cannot take place when name-calling is present.
I don’t see how bigot is name calling, I wasn’t calling you weak-minded I was calling people that could have gone either way but believed scare tactics, weak-minded, and sorry but you are an idiot. And you are right about our conversation not being rational. LOL
“Whoever B is, is too gone to ever see my side, so there is no point being civil with someone that isn’t civil.”
Being civil isn’t something you should do because other people are civil to you, it’s just something you should do, regardless. As an example, you would have no reason to know this, but B is a close friend who I’ve known for over a decade (he was a best man in my wedding). You’ve called a close personal friend of mine “a little bitch” an “idiot” and a “bigot” as well as being just overall rude and belligerent to him. However, I haven’t changed my tone with you (besides perhaps an increase in sarcasm which I love just as much as you). My civility has nothing to do with the names you call me or my friend.
You are joking yourself if you think your tone hasn’t changed at all… not that you were very respectful in the first place. And why don’t you tell your close personal friend if he doesn’t want to be called a little bitch then he shouldn’t hide behind a letter. (or act like one) And why you had to call your friends for back-up I don’t know.
“I’m not taking it personally, I don’t even know you people, but like I said, if I think you’re an idiot I’ll let ya know.”
You’re going to have a hard time convincing me that you don’t take this topic personally, and get personally angry, with the tone and tactics you have displayed.
You may read my words one way, but I am home laughing at all your guys’ comments. You two are pretty intense. LOL Nothing has made me angry, except your disrespect for the GLBT community, but how can I take that personally?
“I can’t rationally debate with people that are too crazy to even try and see another side.”
Deidre, I know that you don’t see this, but your comments of how your morality is better than the Bibles’, that we’re idiots, that we’ll one day see the “truth”, displays this exact “crazy” that you accuse us of. You have yet to show anything but a complete adherence to your own opinion as absolute truth.
OH JEEZ.. did we talk about sarcasm yet, I can’t remember How can you honestly not see that my morality quote was sarcasm?? Really??
“I don’t care if you have a problem with homosexuality, hell, my own husband is a raging homophobe. . .”
Well then, that’s something I can’t say I have. I have absolutely know problem being around homosexuals. I work with 2 on a daily basis, in fact one of my favorite people in my company is a lesbian. Every time I see one of the gays (a male) I give him a huge because honestly a very cool person. I am able to completely divorce my feelings about individuals from what I believe is the definition of marriage.
I think that might be called being a sociopath… ask your friend B with all the psychology knowledge. Like I said, I don’t actually care how you feel about gay people, I care about your disregard for equality.
“I do think the statement all homosexuality is a sin is disgusting when it is said by someone who I’m sure is far from perfect themselves”
No one ever said they were perfect, and being perfect isn’t a requirement for telling you what the Bible considers a sin. I’ll freely admit the sins that I make on a daily basis, sins that are no worse or no better than homosexuality. However, just as being a liar disqualifies me from being perfect, being a homosexual would disqualify me from obtaining a marriage license.
Only if we are defining marriage as the Bible does.. which we should not.
Also, as I’ve already pointed out to you, in the state of California, the civil union is exactly the same as marriage, legally. Now, if a civil union doesn’t give the same federal rights, then fine, change the scope of a civil union, why should the definition of marriage get changed? So it’s not about equality for two reasons.
1. A civil union imbues the same rights as a marriage
2. Having a marriage license is not a basic human right, but I’ve already made this argument on my blog so I won’t repeat it here.
1. No it doesn’t, what happens if they want to move? And what about federal rights? And have you ever heard the phrase “separate but equal”? It is still separate.
2. If you are given the right, all Americans should be granted it
“I grew up Christian and was one until I found out the youth pastor was screwing around with numerous girls in the youth group (some under 18)! The church covered it up and let him go minister at another place, all the while telling us it was “God’s plan for him to leave”.”
Now I more clearly understand your frustration with organized religion. This is a frustration you and I share. I have also seen such things (the day after one of the youth leaders proposed to his girlfriend the other girl who he impregnated spilled the beans). However, I have a question for you. Is the potential truth of the Bible destroyed by the hypocrisy of Christians? Of course not, in fact in only shows how much we really do need Jesus Christ.
My skepticism of the Bible started before then. That situation just made me distrust organized religion. I don’t see how something written, translated, and edited by MAN is going to be 100% God’s word. Maybe we could start by getting the books the Vatican wont share….
“I know how I feel about God and I am not worried about my eternity.”
I’m honestly curious to where you are getting your spiritual truth. That is, where are you getting the idea that your “feelings” about God are enough? How do you know that you shouldn’t be worried about your eternity? As a student of worldviews and ideas, I am honestly curious to hear what your response to these questions is.
I know that when it comes down to it I am a good person and I do a lot of good with my life. I won’t list all my good deeds because I’m really not trying to toot my own horn. I know I can be pessimistic, bitchy, crazy, mean, WRONG, and every other bad thing you can think of, but my good still outweighs my bad. And that is what I think God is concerned with. I have studied a lot of religions (none intensely by any means!!) and the main theme is to try to be and do good. I don’t lie, cheat, steal, hurt anyone (physically anyways… yikes) and on and on the list could go. I try to make the people around me better (and in real life I usually succeed LOL) I have 2 kids under 3, my husband is gone 12 hours a day, and I live in his hometown 3 hours away from my family and friends… I was loosing myself completely and I needed a place to let it all out. That is why I started the blog. Honestly, in real life we probably would be great friends, but the internet is not a good place for disagreements. You may read something different then how I wrote it and the same for me. Well, maybe not great friends, but friends. haha
“Also, I would like to know where Jesus says homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. (I still don’t believe in it, I just have never been told this before… which I am surprised by)”
Would it really change your mind if Jesus said it one way or another?
But in Matthew Jesus equates LOOKING at a woman with lust as committing adultery with her. If we are not to LOOK at a woman with lust, we surely can’t look at the same sex with lust. And if we can’t look at the same sex with lust, then we obviously can’t have a sexual relationship with them.
Huh? I don’t see how you got that conclusion. Couldn’t I take it one step further and say any sexual relationship at all is wrong?
Also, Paul is an apostle of Jesus Christ. That is, Jesus appeared to him and endorsed him. Paul was very clear about how God/Jesus feels about homosexuality.
Paul is NOT Jesus however. What if I told you Jesus appeared to me and told me he DID approve of same-sex marriage? Then who do you believe? I have a feeling I would be locked in padded room.
” Since I don’t believe the Bible is His word, I can say I think God thinks anything I want and it is just as accurate as your Bible.”
Than what IS God’s Word? Is it what YOU say it is?
NO, not by any means… I don’t think we can know what God’s word really is- which is why we shouldn’t base our laws off of it.
Also, the Bible isn’t “just some book” as you seem to think it is, and that’s not because of how I “feel” about it. But that’s another topic entirely.
I would like to know, pretty please…
“Again, I never said I agree with it, I said I WASN’T AGAINST it, as in I don’t think you should all go to hell.”
What is the criteria for someone going to hell and where do you get that idea?
I was trying to explain it better for you… you seem to think that because I don’t follow a certain religion I must be against it… that’s simply not true.
“What I am saying is that I don’t think it is the word of God and I definitely don’t think it should be taking so literal.”
I’m honestly curious, what is the reason for this belief?
How many times do I have to repeat myself???? Because it was written, translated, and edited by MAN, not God.
“They were chocolate with vanilla butter cream frosting.”
Firstly, hmmmm…bran muffin. Secondly, UGH chocolate calorie death muffin!
Straight to my ass, just where hubby wants it!! LOL
“Also, I know as soon as I hit send I am going to reread this and see how bitchy and sarcastic I sound, so I’ll just say sorry now.”
Thank you, but perhaps you should proof read before you hit send :p.
But that’s no fun!!
“However, online I don’t care what people think and I guess it is showing.”
Obviously.
Oh come on, you know you love me
” That is the first time I have even seen him on anything.. internet or tv. I have no clue what he believes about anything- religion, politics, life, whatever.”
Me neither actually. But that video of his was him preaching secular humanism and it was so obvious that I wanted you to see it.
I didn’t even know what secular humanism was before your post and still don’t really, so I don’t know if that is what he was doing. Nor do I care really, I just liked what he had to say.
“I cared that you were so for Prop 8, so against gay people.”
I don’t think you can help yourself from using labels and strawmen arguments.
Hehe… I just love being bad.
“However, B is a little bitch and I will continue to be vocal about that.”
Well, then you continue to be irrational.
Just because he is your friend doesn’t mean he is immune from being a bitch. A lot of my husband’s friends are bitches; he is still friends with them.
Also, I was wondering… what religion are you? You don’t have to tell me and I promise it isn’t because I am looking to bash… I have friends of all different religions. And I do mean ALL— well, except Scientology, unless I can count Cruise. I don’t actually even know if people really consider it a religion… I think so though. I was just curious, what you call yourself.
The second comment is from B. Me quoted is black, B is red, and I am blue!
1. aww, did I hurt your feelings?? Nope, just pointing out the obvious, and what a hypocrite you are to post your “credentials” later on. Hey if you can do it, so can I!!
2. if you want to know why I think you are a hateful bitch then go read your comments. I did, and they sound nothing like yours I never said I wasn’t a bitch and I never said I liked you, that’s for sure.
3. YOU DID NOT answer my questions and still have not… so don’t expect me to. However, ask again and I’ll answer, b/c I’m not sure what I missed. I don’t expect you to answer my questions because you don’t know how or try. I ask a question, and you laughed…..that’s a great answer! Is that how you passed your history tests? Like I said, you show me yours, I’ll show you mine.
4. again, go read your comments and ask yourself if it is what Jesus would do… if you think so, fine, but you are wrong. They were good. Like I said, you think people are wrong that don’t agree with you. So, you think people are right that don’t agree with you?? I’m confused… why are we arguing then?
5. you never told me how your marriage was going either, by the way?? I am not married. I am not surprised.
6. holy talk in circles batman… I can’t make you see it, you are obviously blinded by your hate. That never answered the question of “Please show me where I was angry, filled with hate, and stated such things.” EVERYWHERE, but you don’t see it, so just drop it already
7. I said a reason without religion, you know, because we have a separation of church and state. No, you are wrong. I will quote what you asked for: “So, I would like a reason why Prop 8 is ok that doesn’t have to do with God or the Bible.” So I gave my answer that way. You can’t go around changing what you said when it is right there in the first place. You said God defined the word! That is using God. And you if you can’t give a reason without religion that is fine, just say so.
8. same difference… prop 22 was a crock- that’s why it was overturned. No, it isn’t the “same difference.” And don’t worry, since prop 22 was a “crock” prop 8 won by a majority vote. You know what that means right, more people voted yes than no. Just like other states where it was a similar prop. But their props were wins by landslides. And guess what else- the majority of the no voters were California’s youth… so it’s just a matter of time!!
9. Liar and the stuff you did answer was answered with insane ignorance. You can’t say that I didn’t answer and then say I did, that is illogical! And just because you don’t agree with my answer doesn’t make it “insane ignorance” because could say the same for your comments. I meant you only answered some of my questions.. the ones you could
10. The only reason marriage is defined as man and woman is because of the BIBLE.. get it straight. Your not loosing anything so stop being so damn dramatic. Are you even listening to yourself right now? You tell a Christian that a term is a certain way (marriage) because of their religious views and then state you want to change the definition. So no other words in the Bible have EVER had their definition change?
11. it’s not late, so I have no excuse. You’re right, you have no excuse. Hardy har har
12. to prove a point… I don’t like that the definition of that word changed, but I have to deal with it. I can’t believe you just compared being gay to bestiality. Your ugliness is showing more and more. First off, you are spinning what I said and you are pretty horrible at it. Secondly, thanks for dodging the questions by just making inflammatory statements. Keep up the good work! You are doing great as a Master Debater ; ) What was I spinning?? You were the one that compared the two. And here is your answer- Sex with animals is not OK because an animal can’t consent. And are you his best friend, or some divorced café mom?? PS if you know anything about Master Debaters you would know THIS is the kind of thing that goes on LOL
13. I believe in God, not the Bible, what I would consider my beliefs closest to is Sikhism with a little Christianity left over from youth and a lot of questions brought on by adulthood So basically, you don’t really follow any set of morals from a religion and pick and choose what you want to believe…..and you do realize that Sikhism is against Homosexuality and same sex marriages. In fact: “Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, the highest temporal Sikh authority, has condemned homosexuality while reminding visiting Sikh-Canadian Members of Parliament (MPs) of their religious duty to oppose same-sex marriage. In a report published in March 2005, Vedanti said, “The basic duty of Sikh MPs in Canada should be to support laws that stop this kind of practice homosexuality, because there are thousands of Sikhs living in Canada, to ensure that Sikhs do not fall prey to this practice.”” You are just a big hypocrite wrapped in a conundrum! First of all, I NEVER said I was Sikh. I said I was closest to it. YES I do pick and choose… just like you, you just only use one religion. And actually if you do a little more research then just Wikipedia you would see that in the Guru Granth Sahib there is no mention of homosexuality. Just because the leaders believe something doesn’t mean it is what the religion actually teaches. Sikhism believes in equality for all.
14. now you are comparing them to pedophiles and prisoners???? Nope, I was comparing the differences in equality. Good try on spinning though. OK, whatever you say…
15. I don’t care if you say it is against the Bible… I care if you say I am not married. No you are wrong. You said this: “I have had more then 5 people in my life tell me that my marriage is going against the Bible. Obviously I think they are crazy,” which has nothing to do if you care if you are married or not. I meant the interracial part, not the definition of marriage part, do you even pay attention to what we are talking about???
16. like I said, I want some proof of that! And I can lump all you hateful losers together if I want to You can, I could do the same the for you but then again….there is only you! I could give you proof too, but as you stated before “And if they did, no, it doesn’t make them homophobic, it makes them an idiot.” And there is no way to give you a voting card copy from someone else. Yea, well stop using it as an argument then, if you can’t back it up with proof.
17. I am intolerant of bigots… you don’t think gay people deserve the same thing as you right? Is that right??? How else is denying them marriage explained? If you don’t think they deserve the same as you then you obviously think they are less worthy people I think they should have the same rights as me when it comes to benefits and such deal with the government, not dealing with religion. No, I don’t think they are less worthy people, I think the government needs to recognize that they adopted a word from religion and needs to change what they did by unadopting the word to establish equal rights to everyone. Then why aren’t you all trying to get the word marriage taken away from me?? And you do know that Christianity was NOT the first religion right? And that people were getting married before it was around?
18. “You’re welcome to the knowledge, thanks for saying please.” No, no you’re not bitchy at all. Why am I allowed to marry but gays are not?? Is that question a little more clear for ya?? Answer: because it is illegal! But why should it be when mine isn’t?… you try to say I dodge questions… jeez!
19. Nope, he doesn’t insist anything. According to your Bible there are rules to follow to go to Heaven, but if you don’t care about that, you can do what you want. How much do I need to dumb down my stuff for you to get it??? I’m not even just trying to be bitchy anymore, I just don’t understand why you are so confused. Actually, there are parts of the Bible that states what God insists for us to do. You should stray away from telling Christians what the Bible says when you are more of a Sikh follower. I could give you actual verses, but A) that is besides the point and B) You would spin it to try to make sure you aren’t wrong. And you don’t have to “try” you just are. Aww, you just made my day. If you ask anyone I know, they’ll tell you I tend to let people walk all over me. (in real life I mean) So, go me for being a bitch to someone who deserves it. And he still doesn’t insist. As long as you don’t care about Heaven or don’t believe in the Bible then you don’t have to do anything written in the Bible. Just stop arguing this one.
20. Blah blah blah… everyone that reads this knows exactly what you are doing and I can say whatever I want about Jesus.. he’s my homeboy. I was laughing so hard when I read this blasphemy. Your question dodging now comes in the form of “blah blah blah.” Another note in the Book of great debating! There was no question… go back and read what you wrote moron. And Jesus is my homeboy is a popular image for clothing and t-shirts and such.
21. get over yourself already… this excuse is played out and we aren’t buying it anymore You can’t say things are excuses if they are truth. You just don’t agree and the person that has to deal with it is none other than YOU. It is an excuse because you don’t care about the straight couples that are getting married against your definition, just the gay ones.
22. “Also, there isn’t and shouldn’t be laws that are about what God considers wrong” am I really reading you correctly??? I know how laws are passed… my double major is history and child development… thanks. It seems by what I quoted, you get my point, but then the rest is crazy… I am so confused. Thanks for your credentials! I didn’t know we could use them without being flamed on! You are confused by what I am saying because it is Logical, not emotional, and has actual proof and reasoning, rather than angry words and opinions. No, I am confused because it seems like you agree with me. If we shouldn’t base our laws off what God considers wrong why can’t gays and lesbians get married?????????????
23. hahahehaheheha. There is plenty of science to back it up. Ignorance suits you. Not enough to get it put into the public education system. And just because I don’t comment about it, doesn’t mean I don’t know anything. I am not going to start ANOTHER argument with you.
24. YOU ARE NOT saying only the church gets to decide, YOU ARE saying only certain people can marry. No you are wrong, reread what I wrote. NO, you are wrong, because the church isn’t deciding!! Anyone can still get married (1 man/1woman) regardless of what the church thinks.
25. you can’t just write church and state and expect that to satisfy me. How does the separation of church and state help your argument??? I told you time and time again. I cannot keep telling you different ways. If you don’t understand it then you should ask your history professors! They will agree that your argument doesn’t make sense.
26. YOUR REASON USES ONLY THE BIBLE for determining ability to marry. *sigh. I will use your own answer for this “The only reason marriage is defined as man and woman is because of the BIBLE.. get it straight.” I think you need to get it straight. And as said before, the government adopted marriage from the Bible. Go look at your history books, it’s in there. What were people doing before Christianity then? I’m pretty sure they thought they were getting married. As a matter of fact, marriage was a contract before religion was brought into it. And I wasn’t saying it was right that you guys are defining marriage by the Bible I was saying that is what you are doing. Why can’t you understand anything? What kind of awesome weed are you smoking???
27. If you can choose what means what in the Bible so can I, and like I said, it was your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that said that stuff to me. First, I don’t “choose” what the Bible means. That is exactly what it means from the Bible. You change the meaning. That’s like me telling you what things mean in a Harry Potter Book when I really haven’t read/know most of the details and only know the main plot. Yes you do, everyone does. I hear different meanings from everyone I meet for what the Bible says.
28. Now you know how you are making GLTB people feel. First off, I don’t make people feel a certain way, they have a choice. Secondly, you call people haters, and then hate on them. Does that make sense? Yea, ok.. what about it?
29. I changed the definition of the word hate, didn’t you hear? I can tell, and the words Bigot, hostile, and debate must be other words you decided to redefine. And marriage
You are not a lesser person then me, you are just wrong it what you believe. I know I am bitchy to people that deserve it. I treat other people how they want to be treated… how they treat me. You showed how you wanted to be treated in your comment. Go ahead and re-ask your questions and I will be happy to answer, assuming you answer mine first.
I am going to respond to your comment with this comment that you made, “she was being a mean bitch. She didn’t get her way and so she decided to ruin this man’s life….. But she has no regrets… what is happening to people?” Maybe you should listen to yourself more often. Well this concludes our debate…err, my debate and your colorful spin dodging with angry comments!
Guess what… I’m not ruining anyone’s life. And another thing, you two came over here… not the other way around. I wasn’t looking for a fight, you were.
Moonstruck Mommy
OK I lied…. November 18, 2008
Posted by Moonstruck Mommy in History, Life, Politics, religion.Tags: comments, crazy, History, Politics, Prop 8, religion, Religion and Spirituality, Same-sex marriage
2 comments
Guess there will be more PROP 8 posts. LOL No, I’m not explaining myself, you can just deal with it.
Well, not really Prop 8, but related none the less. I don’t like just replying in the comments, because it is hard to address every topic. Instead I put the two comments I wanted to respond to here. The first is from Eric. His writing is black, what he is quoting of me is orange, and my stuff is purple.
Deidre (look how pretty it is when spelled right!
)
“To be honest, I don’t remember name calling you . . .”
You called me an idiot (on two occasions), a bigot and weak-minded, and it wasn’t sarcasm. I can tell that perhaps this name calling isn’t a big deal to you, however I’m not used to it in rational conversation, in fact, rational conversation cannot take place when name-calling is present.
I don’t see how bigot is name calling, I wasn’t calling you weak-minded I was calling people that could have gone either way but believed scare tactics, weak-minded, and sorry but you are an idiot. And you are right about our conversation not being rational. LOL
“Whoever B is, is too gone to ever see my side, so there is no point being civil with someone that isn’t civil.”
Being civil isn’t something you should do because other people are civil to you, it’s just something you should do, regardless. As an example, you would have no reason to know this, but B is a close friend who I’ve known for over a decade (he was a best man in my wedding). You’ve called a close personal friend of mine “a little bitch” an “idiot” and a “bigot” as well as being just overall rude and belligerent to him. However, I haven’t changed my tone with you (besides perhaps an increase in sarcasm which I love just as much as you). My civility has nothing to do with the names you call me or my friend.
You are joking yourself if you think your tone hasn’t changed at all… not that you were very respectful in the first place. And why don’t you tell your close personal friend if he doesn’t want to be called a little bitch then he shouldn’t hide behind a letter. (or act like one) And why you had to call your friends for back-up I don’t know.
“I’m not taking it personally, I don’t even know you people, but like I said, if I think you’re an idiot I’ll let ya know.”
You’re going to have a hard time convincing me that you don’t take this topic personally, and get personally angry, with the tone and tactics you have displayed.
You may read my words one way, but I am home laughing at all your guys’ comments. You two are pretty intense. LOL Nothing has made me angry, except your disrespect for the GLBT community, but how can I take that personally?
“I can’t rationally debate with people that are too crazy to even try and see another side.”
Deidre, I know that you don’t see this, but your comments of how your morality is better than the Bibles’, that we’re idiots, that we’ll one day see the “truth”, displays this exact “crazy” that you accuse us of. You have yet to show anything but a complete adherence to your own opinion as absolute truth.
OH JEEZ.. did we talk about sarcasm yet, I can’t remember How can you honestly not see that my morality quote was sarcasm?? Really??
“I don’t care if you have a problem with homosexuality, hell, my own husband is a raging homophobe. . .”
Well then, that’s something I can’t say I have. I have absolutely know problem being around homosexuals. I work with 2 on a daily basis, in fact one of my favorite people in my company is a lesbian. Every time I see one of the gays (a male) I give him a huge because honestly a very cool person. I am able to completely divorce my feelings about individuals from what I believe is the definition of marriage.
I think that might be called being a sociopath… ask your friend B with all the psychology knowledge. Like I said, I don’t actually care how you feel about gay people, I care about your disregard for equality.
“I do think the statement all homosexuality is a sin is disgusting when it is said by someone who I’m sure is far from perfect themselves”
No one ever said they were perfect, and being perfect isn’t a requirement for telling you what the Bible considers a sin. I’ll freely admit the sins that I make on a daily basis, sins that are no worse or no better than homosexuality. However, just as being a liar disqualifies me from being perfect, being a homosexual would disqualify me from obtaining a marriage license.
Only if we are defining marriage as the Bible does.. which we should not.
Also, as I’ve already pointed out to you, in the state of California, the civil union is exactly the same as marriage, legally. Now, if a civil union doesn’t give the same federal rights, then fine, change the scope of a civil union, why should the definition of marriage get changed? So it’s not about equality for two reasons.
1. A civil union imbues the same rights as a marriage
2. Having a marriage license is not a basic human right, but I’ve already made this argument on my blog so I won’t repeat it here.
1. No it doesn’t, what happens if they want to move? And what about federal rights? And have you ever heard the phrase “separate but equal”? It is still separate.
2. If you are given the right, all Americans should be granted it
“I grew up Christian and was one until I found out the youth pastor was screwing around with numerous girls in the youth group (some under 18)! The church covered it up and let him go minister at another place, all the while telling us it was “God’s plan for him to leave”.”
Now I more clearly understand your frustration with organized religion. This is a frustration you and I share. I have also seen such things (the day after one of the youth leaders proposed to his girlfriend the other girl who he impregnated spilled the beans). However, I have a question for you. Is the potential truth of the Bible destroyed by the hypocrisy of Christians? Of course not, in fact in only shows how much we really do need Jesus Christ.
My skepticism of the Bible started before then. That situation just made me distrust organized religion. I don’t see how something written, translated, and edited by MAN is going to be 100% God’s word. Maybe we could start by getting the books the Vatican wont share….
“I know how I feel about God and I am not worried about my eternity.”
I’m honestly curious to where you are getting your spiritual truth. That is, where are you getting the idea that your “feelings” about God are enough? How do you know that you shouldn’t be worried about your eternity? As a student of worldviews and ideas, I am honestly curious to hear what your response to these questions is.
I know that when it comes down to it I am a good person and I do a lot of good with my life. I won’t list all my good deeds because I’m really not trying to toot my own horn. I know I can be pessimistic, bitchy, crazy, mean, WRONG, and every other bad thing you can think of, but my good still outweighs my bad. And that is what I think God is concerned with. I have studied a lot of religions (none intensely by any means!!) and the main theme is to try to be and do good. I don’t lie, cheat, steal, hurt anyone (physically anyways… yikes) and on and on the list could go. I try to make the people around me better (and in real life I usually succeed LOL) I have 2 kids under 3, my husband is gone 12 hours a day, and I live in his hometown 3 hours away from my family and friends… I was loosing myself completely and I needed a place to let it all out. That is why I started the blog. Honestly, in real life we probably would be great friends, but the internet is not a good place for disagreements. You may read something different then how I wrote it and the same for me. Well, maybe not great friends, but friends. haha
“Also, I would like to know where Jesus says homosexuality is a sin in the Bible. (I still don’t believe in it, I just have never been told this before… which I am surprised by)”
Would it really change your mind if Jesus said it one way or another?
But in Matthew Jesus equates LOOKING at a woman with lust as committing adultery with her. If we are not to LOOK at a woman with lust, we surely can’t look at the same sex with lust. And if we can’t look at the same sex with lust, then we obviously can’t have a sexual relationship with them.
Huh? I don’t see how you got that conclusion. Couldn’t I take it one step further and say any sexual relationship at all is wrong?
Also, Paul is an apostle of Jesus Christ. That is, Jesus appeared to him and endorsed him. Paul was very clear about how God/Jesus feels about homosexuality.
Paul is NOT Jesus however. What if I told you Jesus appeared to me and told me he DID approve of same-sex marriage? Then who do you believe? I have a feeling I would be locked in padded room.
” Since I don’t believe the Bible is His word, I can say I think God thinks anything I want and it is just as accurate as your Bible.”
Than what IS God’s Word? Is it what YOU say it is?
NO, not by any means… I don’t think we can know what God’s word really is- which is why we shouldn’t base our laws off of it.
Also, the Bible isn’t “just some book” as you seem to think it is, and that’s not because of how I “feel” about it. But that’s another topic entirely.
I would like to know, pretty please…
“Again, I never said I agree with it, I said I WASN’T AGAINST it, as in I don’t think you should all go to hell.”
What is the criteria for someone going to hell and where do you get that idea?
I was trying to explain it better for you… you seem to think that because I don’t follow a certain religion I must be against it… that’s simply not true.
“What I am saying is that I don’t think it is the word of God and I definitely don’t think it should be taking so literal.”
I’m honestly curious, what is the reason for this belief?
How many times do I have to repeat myself???? Because it was written, translated, and edited by MAN, not God.
“They were chocolate with vanilla butter cream frosting.”
Firstly, hmmmm…bran muffin. Secondly, UGH chocolate calorie death muffin!
Straight to my ass, just where hubby wants it!! LOL
“Also, I know as soon as I hit send I am going to reread this and see how bitchy and sarcastic I sound, so I’ll just say sorry now.”
Thank you, but perhaps you should proof read before you hit send :p.
But that’s no fun!!
“However, online I don’t care what people think and I guess it is showing.”
Obviously.
Oh come on, you know you love me
” That is the first time I have even seen him on anything.. internet or tv. I have no clue what he believes about anything- religion, politics, life, whatever.”
Me neither actually. But that video of his was him preaching secular humanism and it was so obvious that I wanted you to see it.
I didn’t even know what secular humanism was before your post and still don’t really, so I don’t know if that is what he was doing. Nor do I care really, I just liked what he had to say.
“I cared that you were so for Prop 8, so against gay people.”
I don’t think you can help yourself from using labels and strawmen arguments.
Hehe… I just love being bad.
“However, B is a little bitch and I will continue to be vocal about that.”
Well, then you continue to be irrational.
Just because he is your friend doesn’t mean he is immune from being a bitch. A lot of my husband’s friends are bitches; he is still friends with them.
Also, I was wondering… what religion are you? You don’t have to tell me and I promise it isn’t because I am looking to bash… I have friends of all different religions. And I do mean ALL— well, except Scientology, unless I can count Cruise. I don’t actually even know if people really consider it a religion… I think so though. I was just curious, what you call yourself.
The second comment is from B. Me quoted is black, B is red, and I am blue!
1. aww, did I hurt your feelings?? Nope, just pointing out the obvious, and what a hypocrite you are to post your “credentials” later on. Hey if you can do it, so can I!!
2. if you want to know why I think you are a hateful bitch then go read your comments. I did, and they sound nothing like yours I never said I wasn’t a bitch and I never said I liked you, that’s for sure.
3. YOU DID NOT answer my questions and still have not… so don’t expect me to. However, ask again and I’ll answer, b/c I’m not sure what I missed. I don’t expect you to answer my questions because you don’t know how or try. I ask a question, and you laughed…..that’s a great answer! Is that how you passed your history tests? Like I said, you show me yours, I’ll show you mine.
4. again, go read your comments and ask yourself if it is what Jesus would do… if you think so, fine, but you are wrong. They were good. Like I said, you think people are wrong that don’t agree with you. So, you think people are right that don’t agree with you?? I’m confused… why are we arguing then?
5. you never told me how your marriage was going either, by the way?? I am not married. I am not surprised.
6. holy talk in circles batman… I can’t make you see it, you are obviously blinded by your hate. That never answered the question of “Please show me where I was angry, filled with hate, and stated such things.” EVERYWHERE, but you don’t see it, so just drop it already
7. I said a reason without religion, you know, because we have a separation of church and state. No, you are wrong. I will quote what you asked for: “So, I would like a reason why Prop 8 is ok that doesn’t have to do with God or the Bible.” So I gave my answer that way. You can’t go around changing what you said when it is right there in the first place. You said God defined the word! That is using God. And you if you can’t give a reason without religion that is fine, just say so.
8. same difference… prop 22 was a crock- that’s why it was overturned. No, it isn’t the “same difference.” And don’t worry, since prop 22 was a “crock” prop 8 won by a majority vote. You know what that means right, more people voted yes than no. Just like other states where it was a similar prop. But their props were wins by landslides. And guess what else- the majority of the no voters were California’s youth… so it’s just a matter of time!!
9. Liar and the stuff you did answer was answered with insane ignorance. You can’t say that I didn’t answer and then say I did, that is illogical! And just because you don’t agree with my answer doesn’t make it “insane ignorance” because could say the same for your comments. I meant you only answered some of my questions.. the ones you could
10. The only reason marriage is defined as man and woman is because of the BIBLE.. get it straight. Your not loosing anything so stop being so damn dramatic. Are you even listening to yourself right now? You tell a Christian that a term is a certain way (marriage) because of their religious views and then state you want to change the definition. So no other words in the Bible have EVER had their definition change?
11. it’s not late, so I have no excuse. You’re right, you have no excuse. Hardy har har
12. to prove a point… I don’t like that the definition of that word changed, but I have to deal with it. I can’t believe you just compared being gay to bestiality. Your ugliness is showing more and more. First off, you are spinning what I said and you are pretty horrible at it. Secondly, thanks for dodging the questions by just making inflammatory statements. Keep up the good work! You are doing great as a Master Debater ; ) What was I spinning?? You were the one that compared the two. And here is your answer- Sex with animals is not OK because an animal can’t consent.
And are you his best friend, or some divorced café mom?? PS if you know anything about Master Debaters you would know THIS is the kind of thing that goes on LOL
13. I believe in God, not the Bible, what I would consider my beliefs closest to is Sikhism with a little Christianity left over from youth and a lot of questions brought on by adulthood So basically, you don’t really follow any set of morals from a religion and pick and choose what you want to believe…..and you do realize that Sikhism is against Homosexuality and same sex marriages. In fact: “Giani Joginder Singh Vedanti, the highest temporal Sikh authority, has condemned homosexuality while reminding visiting Sikh-Canadian Members of Parliament (MPs) of their religious duty to oppose same-sex marriage. In a report published in March 2005, Vedanti said, “The basic duty of Sikh MPs in Canada should be to support laws that stop this kind of practice homosexuality, because there are thousands of Sikhs living in Canada, to ensure that Sikhs do not fall prey to this practice.”” You are just a big hypocrite wrapped in a conundrum! First of all, I NEVER said I was Sikh. I said I was closest to it. YES I do pick and choose… just like you, you just only use one religion. And actually if you do a little more research then just Wikipedia you would see that in the Guru Granth Sahib there is no mention of homosexuality. Just because the leaders believe something doesn’t mean it is what the religion actually teaches. Sikhism believes in equality for all.
14. now you are comparing them to pedophiles and prisoners???? Nope, I was comparing the differences in equality. Good try on spinning though. OK, whatever you say…
15. I don’t care if you say it is against the Bible… I care if you say I am not married. No you are wrong. You said this: “I have had more then 5 people in my life tell me that my marriage is going against the Bible. Obviously I think they are crazy,” which has nothing to do if you care if you are married or not. I meant the interracial part, not the definition of marriage part, do you even pay attention to what we are talking about???
16. like I said, I want some proof of that! And I can lump all you hateful losers together if I want to You can, I could do the same the for you but then again….there is only you! I could give you proof too, but as you stated before “And if they did, no, it doesn’t make them homophobic, it makes them an idiot.” And there is no way to give you a voting card copy from someone else. Yea, well stop using it as an argument then, if you can’t back it up with proof.
17. I am intolerant of bigots… you don’t think gay people deserve the same thing as you right? Is that right??? How else is denying them marriage explained? If you don’t think they deserve the same as you then you obviously think they are less worthy people I think they should have the same rights as me when it comes to benefits and such deal with the government, not dealing with religion. No, I don’t think they are less worthy people, I think the government needs to recognize that they adopted a word from religion and needs to change what they did by unadopting the word to establish equal rights to everyone. Then why aren’t you all trying to get the word marriage taken away from me?? And you do know that Christianity was NOT the first religion right? And that people were getting married before it was around?
18. “You’re welcome to the knowledge, thanks for saying please.” No, no you’re not bitchy at all. Why am I allowed to marry but gays are not?? Is that question a little more clear for ya?? Answer: because it is illegal! But why should it be when mine isn’t?… you try to say I dodge questions… jeez!
19. Nope, he doesn’t insist anything. According to your Bible there are rules to follow to go to Heaven, but if you don’t care about that, you can do what you want. How much do I need to dumb down my stuff for you to get it??? I’m not even just trying to be bitchy anymore, I just don’t understand why you are so confused. Actually, there are parts of the Bible that states what God insists for us to do. You should stray away from telling Christians what the Bible says when you are more of a Sikh follower. I could give you actual verses, but A) that is besides the point and B) You would spin it to try to make sure you aren’t wrong. And you don’t have to “try” you just are. Aww, you just made my day. If you ask anyone I know, they’ll tell you I tend to let people walk all over me. (in real life I mean) So, go me for being a bitch to someone who deserves it.
And he still doesn’t insist. As long as you don’t care about Heaven or don’t believe in the Bible then you don’t have to do anything written in the Bible. Just stop arguing this one.
20. Blah blah blah… everyone that reads this knows exactly what you are doing and I can say whatever I want about Jesus.. he’s my homeboy. I was laughing so hard when I read this blasphemy. Your question dodging now comes in the form of “blah blah blah.” Another note in the Book of great debating! There was no question… go back and read what you wrote moron. And Jesus is my homeboy is a popular image for clothing and t-shirts and such.
21. get over yourself already… this excuse is played out and we aren’t buying it anymore You can’t say things are excuses if they are truth. You just don’t agree and the person that has to deal with it is none other than YOU. It is an excuse because you don’t care about the straight couples that are getting married against your definition, just the gay ones.
22. “Also, there isn’t and shouldn’t be laws that are about what God considers wrong” am I really reading you correctly??? I know how laws are passed… my double major is history and child development… thanks. It seems by what I quoted, you get my point, but then the rest is crazy… I am so confused. Thanks for your credentials! I didn’t know we could use them without being flamed on! You are confused by what I am saying because it is Logical, not emotional, and has actual proof and reasoning, rather than angry words and opinions. No, I am confused because it seems like you agree with me. If we shouldn’t base our laws off what God considers wrong why can’t gays and lesbians get married?????????????
23. hahahehaheheha. There is plenty of science to back it up. Ignorance suits you. Not enough to get it put into the public education system. And just because I don’t comment about it, doesn’t mean I don’t know anything. I am not going to start ANOTHER argument with you.
24. YOU ARE NOT saying only the church gets to decide, YOU ARE saying only certain people can marry. No you are wrong, reread what I wrote. NO, you are wrong, because the church isn’t deciding!! Anyone can still get married (1 man/1woman) regardless of what the church thinks.
25. you can’t just write church and state and expect that to satisfy me. How does the separation of church and state help your argument??? I told you time and time again. I cannot keep telling you different ways. If you don’t understand it then you should ask your history professors! They will agree that your argument doesn’t make sense.
26. YOUR REASON USES ONLY THE BIBLE for determining ability to marry. *sigh. I will use your own answer for this “The only reason marriage is defined as man and woman is because of the BIBLE.. get it straight.” I think you need to get it straight. And as said before, the government adopted marriage from the Bible. Go look at your history books, it’s in there. What were people doing before Christianity then? I’m pretty sure they thought they were getting married. As a matter of fact, marriage was a contract before religion was brought into it. And I wasn’t saying it was right that you guys are defining marriage by the Bible I was saying that is what you are doing. Why can’t you understand anything? What kind of awesome weed are you smoking???
27. If you can choose what means what in the Bible so can I, and like I said, it was your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ that said that stuff to me. First, I don’t “choose” what the Bible means. That is exactly what it means from the Bible. You change the meaning. That’s like me telling you what things mean in a Harry Potter Book when I really haven’t read/know most of the details and only know the main plot. Yes you do, everyone does. I hear different meanings from everyone I meet for what the Bible says.
28. Now you know how you are making GLTB people feel. First off, I don’t make people feel a certain way, they have a choice. Secondly, you call people haters, and then hate on them. Does that make sense? Yea, ok.. what about it?
29. I changed the definition of the word hate, didn’t you hear? I can tell, and the words Bigot, hostile, and debate must be other words you decided to redefine. And marriage
You are not a lesser person then me, you are just wrong it what you believe. I know I am bitchy to people that deserve it. I treat other people how they want to be treated… how they treat me. You showed how you wanted to be treated in your comment. Go ahead and re-ask your questions and I will be happy to answer, assuming you answer mine first.
I am going to respond to your comment with this comment that you made, “she was being a mean bitch. She didn’t get her way and so she decided to ruin this man’s life….. But she has no regrets… what is happening to people?” Maybe you should listen to yourself more often. Well this concludes our debate…err, my debate and your colorful spin dodging with angry comments!
Guess what… I’m not ruining anyone’s life. And another thing, you two came over here… not the other way around. I wasn’t looking for a fight, you were.
Moonstruck Mommy