the mind of a moonstruck mommy

Oh jeez… this was too good to ignore. I received a comment on my last post from someone called “B”.  I think it stands for Bitch, but I’m not positive.  B’s stuff is shit brown, like their attitude, the stuff of mine they quoted is blue, and what I have to say is green.

I speak as a Therapist with dual degrees so I am going to write from a Christian standpoint first with a psychological background too.

Your educational background means nothing to me.  Some of the smartest people I know didn’t go to college while George W has a degree from Harvard and I wouldn’t trust anything he says. And another thing, I have a degree in coolness, so I’ll be speaking from that background.

“Well then, let’s get rid of marriage all together, I’m sure my husband would just LOVE that. A wedding makes people happy, tax breaks make people happy, and being able to tell the world they are married makes people happy.  It isn’t just about that license.”

You seem to be speaking from a subjective point of view in which your husband would not want to be married and would be happy with not being married. Getting rid of marriage all together by the Government is something that should be done (i.e. a license). Marriage has been and IS a religious issue. Additionally, NOTHING worldly can make you happy. People have choices to have certain feelings at certain times in their life. For instance, you might be happy that you were married, but from you statement about your husband, he might have been dying inside while he put a smile on his face throughout the wedding day. Tax breaks can come from civil unions too and many people do not file together because the tax break is not as good as it would be when filing individually. Being able to tell the whole world does not make “people happy.” You shouldn’t do an overall sweeping statement. Many people get upset about weddings and some people really appose weddings and marriages including famous actors and a famous wealthy Atheist named Tom Lykis. The title and license is synonymous, and it is the same until the Government changes anything about it.

First of all, if you read my About section, you will see that I am “very sarcastic”.  Of course my husband is happy to be married to me, if he wasn’t we wouldn’t be…. duh.  Marriage is only a religious issue because religions are making it one.  The whole world uses the word marriage and not everyone in the world is one religion, or any religion.  And as for Tom whoever, if he doesn’t want to be married he doesn’t need to be, any couples that do want to, should be allowed to.

“You don’t have the right to define words, sorry.  And, you didn’t address what he really meant.  No one is taking away your right to marry the person you love, why would you want to do it to someone else?”

No, we didn’t define the word. In fact, God defined the Word in one the most ancient texts ever written. Being a Christian, I follow what the Lord has written as the definition; therefore, it isn’t my definition it is God’s definition, which is a religious matter when I last checked. And by your definition, if I loved more than one person than I guess people shouldn’t be able to take away my “right” to marry more than one person….that doesn’t really fit.

Yes, but the point is that not everyone believes in God, or that God wrote the Bible.  Therefore, we can’t base our laws off of it.  There is a separation of church and state for a reason and it isn’t just to protect the churches.   And to be honest, I don’t really have a problem with polygamy, as long as everyone is of sound mind, willing, and over 18.  I would personally love to have another gal around to chit chat with, help me change the endless diapers, and deal with the crazy need my husband has for fellatio every damn day!  Sadly, my husband is only interested in one wife… he says I make him crazy enough!

“I think it is something like 16,000 marriages that may no longer be valid in California, so that is breaking some people apart. If I was told tomorrow that my husband and I were no longer married I would be pissed (and he would be on his way to a strip club)”

Breaking people apart is a permanence issue in which the couple is not a couple anymore, prop 8 does not break apart a relationship, if it does than a relationship wasn’t worth the title “marriage” or relationship anyways. Additionally, I would understand your anger about your husband leaving for a stripjoint. It seems that your husband does not like being married or confined to you, which appears to make you angry and seems to be your underlying feeling in much of your statements.

OMG LOL Don’t give me your weird shrink stuff.  As I said before I was being sarcastic.  It was meant as a joke! Do you know what that is… a joke? And of course it is not actually physically breaking couples apart, but it would make me very upset if it happened to me and I’m sure, if you are married, you would be mad as well.  Any married couple would be upset if strangers (not even the government really) decided their marriage wasn’t valid.  I’m sure you will all say you wouldn’t care, but if things were reversed I guarantee it would be a big deal.

“I think they checked it and thought it was unjust, so they balanced it by overturning Prop22.  We elect people to make sure the laws are fair and everyone is being treated equally, not to enforce the Bible.”

I agree that they shouldn’t be enforcing the Bible, but they should have looked at the 1st Amendment initially and realized the issue of the definition of marriage as a violation of church and state rather than granting a “right” without clearly checking the full fairness for everyone.

Are you really trying to preach to me about FAIRNESS?!?!?! And like I said your religion doesn’t get to define words.  I don’t care if it is in some old text that YOU think was written by God.

“No, they don’t meet your requirements for marriage, the Bible’s requirement.  The point is, that IS NOT fair.  Not everyone believes in the Bible and not everyone believes that same-sex marriage is wrong.  This state/country is extremely diverse and we can’t base our laws off of one religion.  How about we start passing laws that follow my beliefs?  I don’t think MEN should be allowed guns.  I think the founding fathers should have said every Woman has the right to bear arms, so lets change it, because that’s what I think it should say… who cares if I am right or not.”

I kind of don’t understand the first part of your statement, but here is my shot at it. The issue is that the government has been using the rights via the Bible’s requirement. I agree that it is not fair that the government can trample over people and decide to be influenced by religion and doesn’t address the situation of church and state. Additionally, because marriage is a religious matter, it does not have to be fair. Also, man can be addressed to “mankind” because we know women can own guns, which is not affected by the way it is written.

I wasn’t saying that they didn’t mean women could own guns, I was saying I think MEN shouldn’t be able to… and because I think so, we have to pass a law and make everyone else believe what I believe.  That is what you are doing, is it not? And tell me again why marriage is a religious matter?  It doesn’t take any religion to get married so I don’t see how it is a religious issue.

“Marriage may be a religious term to you, but not to me.  I got married and it had nothing to do with a church or religion.  You guys need to get over yourselves- EVERYONE uses the term marriage, deal with it… you can have Holy Union if you need something different.  My side doesn’t think we need different terms, thank you very much.”

If it were only that simple; marriage dates back to the first chapters in Genesis which is one of the oldest books written. Therefore, marriage has been a religious term FIRST. Through history we find that religion heavily influenced the way things were; hence the common use of the term marriage was used because of religion. Wait wait wait, The Bible comes up with the word marriage first, then everyone uses it, so now WE (Christians) need to change and have a Holy Union? That isn’t how it works. God came up with it first prior to the worldly use of it. Therefore, Christians do not need to change what they have been doing for thousands of years, it is the newcomers that need to change their words and stop taking things that were never theirs. And “my side”? Who is your side and what do you represent? Do represent Atheists? Buddhists? Angry wives that have husbands that will leave them if their marriage license was void? Who!?!? And you are welcome for the knowledge that was
given to you.

“but, but we had it FIRST!” What are you 3?  We aren’t asking you to change anything; you can still marry the same way and spew your hate to the world. You just can’t take away anyone’s rights. Guess what, in the FIRST place, fagot meant “bundle of sticks” but apparently times change.  And if I remember correctly the Bible wasn’t even written in English, so it couldn’t have said “marriage”… why don’t you guys use whatever word it originally was then?  If it is so important to stay true to what God wrote?  Oh, and I represent the side that thinks everyone should be treated equally. I am not an Atheist, I believe in God too, just obviously NOT the same one as you.

“Whoa, whoa, whoa… it is a very valid argument.  There are quite a few people that say interracial marriages are also “against the Bible” so what is stopping them from passing a prop changing it to “one man and one woman, of the same race” It is because you guys like to pick and choose what to harp on.  Back then it was race, now it is same-sex marriages.  My husband is a liar (as well as most husbands out there) and no one told us we couldn’t get married.”

Please explain who says interracial marriages are against the Bible/Word of God. The Bible doesn’t say that, it states between a man and a woman. You guys? Are you really lumping all Christians together? I mean that is unfair because there are many people that are not Christian that believe in marriage between only a man and a woman and do not have the same beliefs as me, a Christian. And I don’t know that much about your lying husband, but I am really lost at what you are talking about in the last sentence except for the fact that you might need to seek Marriage counseling (couples counseling for the PC term) seeing that this is the third issue that claims that your marriage and husband aren’t doing too well. Also, your subjective marriage and views  appear to be clouding how you see things objectively.

No, I think marriage is one of the most awesome things in the world and that is why I think everyone that wants to should be allowed to experience it.  I really don’t know why I am bothering to respond to this, instead of just deleting your stupidity, guess I just can’t stand the hatred. I’m not lumping together ALL Christians, I am lumping together all Christians that voted YES on Prop8. I also know that people of all different beliefs voted Yes and ALL of them were WRONG!  I have had more then 5 people in my life tell me that my marriage is going against the Bible.  Obviously I think they are crazy, but I can’t help what they say to me.

“No, because as Keith pointed out, during the time of slavery it was NOT the definition of marriage, at least not for the slaves. Times change and the world needs to change too.”

Actually the definition of marriage was always that between a man and a woman. The issue of slavery was an addendum by the government that denoted the issues of slavery to each part of the amendment and laws including marriage. The definition never changed, the addendum was erased and remains unanimous for marriages between a man and a woman……like it has been since the beginning of the Bible….which is the beginning of time (at least for Christians).

Are you even reading what you are typing??

“His point is the people that voted Yes on 8 are the same people keeping our society homophobic and who in the hell would want to come out to a bunch of bigots?  If we allow them to marry and treat them like regular people (because they ARE) then maybe all the hate will start to die out and people will feel SAFE enough to be who they are.”

Do you know that there were also those of the GLBT community that voted yes on 8? Does that make them homophobic? I have gay friends and colleagues that I enjoy hanging out with, does that make me a bigot? My friends feel comfortable coming out to me and know my stance on the issue. Bigots make bigots, not religion. Marriage doesn’t allow people to change how they should be treated, you place such a high value on marriage that you think bigotry and homophobia will disappear? Please show me where that has occurred ANYWHERE.

The high value isn’t on marriage, it is on EQUALITY!!  The issue just happens to be marriage. I will believe that a member of the GLBT community voted yes when they bring me a copy of their voting card. And if they did, no, it doesn’t make them homophobic, it makes them an idiot. And YES you are still a bigot. Anyone that thinks people deserve less then themselves based on something those people CANNOT CHANGE is a bigot.

“Even besides what Keith is talking about, there is no sanctity of marriage.  According to you, strangers can get married as long as they are 1 man and 1 woman.  My best friend’s uncles have been together longer then I have known her (almost 20 years) but them getting married would violate the sanctity. Puh-lease.”

Keith spoke of the sanctity of marriage…where do you think he got the words and expression from? Strangers can get married, it happens still many the time. Sanctity is defined as “holiness, saintliness, or godliness” which comes from religion. Keith is right, Atheists that go to a Holy place such as a church to get married also defies the sanctity of marriage. Sanctity of marriage is a religious term; thus, a marriage that goes against a religious view would violate the sanctity of marriage. You’re welcome to the knowledge, thanks for saying please.

All you did was define sanctity and bash Atheists… you didn’t respond to what I was saying.  What is holy and godly about a 2 day Vegas marriage?  Why aren’t we passing laws to stop this kind of thing as well?

“No, you can still think it is wrong, just like you might think adultery is wrong.  You just can’t play God and decide who get married.”

But you see, we aren’t “playing God”. Playing God would mean for us to make our own rules by the way we govern that has nothing to do with any other religion. We are not playing God when we are only following God’s word. We never decided, God did. Stop thinking that we are playing God, when God is insisting who is to be married and who is not able to. It is the government that decided to adopt the views.

God doesn’t insist anything; if he did we wouldn’t have free will.

“I don’t feel like repeating myself, see above.”

Ditto

Sigh….

“Who are you to degrade my beliefs?  I am not asking you to change your beliefs, I am asking you to have a tiny bit of compassion towards your fellow man (and woman).  You can still damn them to hell all you want, just let them get married first.”

Our beliefs aren’t the only thing being degraded, the word and command of God is. And you are asking us to change our belief. Trust me, I have compassion for the GLBT community. I also have compassion for those people that are sociopaths and those people that know nothing else but to have feelings for children. I have compassion for people in jail too, but does that mean that I, we, you should be able to change laws and amendments for compassion? If compassion ruled society then we wouldn’t have jails, laws, or detain people. In fact, because I have compassion for you because of you lying husband, we should have a way where divorce never deals with the legal system at all! How does that sound? PS~ I/we cannot damn people to Hell, only God can and he would not damn people to Hell for being gay.

You sure seem a little obsessed with me and my husband… I can’t help but think if I was being serious; your words would be hurtful.  I definitely doubt it is what Jesus would be saying… just something for YOU to think about.  Lucky for me, I was using exaggeration to prove a point and my husband is pretty awesome.  He is a liar, but EVERYONE is, especially every man! LOL (do I need to follow every sarcastic thing I say with LOL so you can get it?)  I also think I lot of people in the GLBT community would be extremely offended at your comparing them to pedophiles, murders, and sociopaths.  You really do have God’s love in you huh? When did I ever ask you to change your belief?  You can still think it is wrong or yucky or whatever you personally think, just don’t force your beliefs on everyone.

“God gave us free will, so I think he would let us run out in front of that car.  As a matter of fact I know more then one person that has died from running in front of a car.  I know that it was supposed to be a metaphor, but it isn’t a good one.  God allows us to lie, cheat, steal, murder, have pre-marital sex, and even be gay.  You aren’t trying to pass laws about EVERY single thing God thinks is wrong. so why this?”

Wait a second, you need to reread what Eric wrote. It didn’t say anything about freewill. It stated something that had to do with happiness. So your statement holds no water at all. In fact, what Eric said is a really good metaphor. In summary: what makes you happy is not always right, and what is right will not always make you happy. What God allows/permits isn’t the same thing as what He wants-you are confusing the two, which is flaw in your logic. Also, we aren’t trying to pass a law, we are asking that a law be withheld still. We are asking for a definition made by God and religion to be kept for God and religion.

Ahhh!! Are there really people like you out there???  You expect me to believe you graduated college? I think I have a feeling where it must have been….  And the law that you are asking to be upheld was passed unjustly in the first place.  That is why it was overturned!! So my question is valid and I would just LOVE a response.

“What about everything in the Bible you ignore? Are you perfect? Then don’t throw stones.”

Ok, this is a strawman that is somewhat confusing. We never stated that we don’t ignore or not listen to parts of the Bible. The issue here is that Keith is quote mining part of the Bible to fit a part of his monologue rather than using the full context of what the Bible states about marriage. Taking things out of context doesn’t help his cause, but actually hurt it. Jesus states turn the other cheek, so does that mean Gay Christians or others shouldn’t worry about getting married or bigotry because they should turn the other cheek? Do you see how ridiculous your statement sounds?

And cherry picking hurts your cause.  If you can’t follow the Bible to the T then don’t expect anyone else to.

“Not everyone believes in your God.”

I agree, nor will I or many others force them to believe in my beliefs….unlike evolutionists that are allowed to force their “belief” on children in the classroom.

As soon as you can show me some scientific evidence then you can teach your stuff at school too.  Stop being such a baby about it, and definitely don’t blame it on the gays.  Passing laws based solely on your beliefs is trying to force people into believing the same as you.

“And you don’t get to pass laws based on your beliefs.”

The law was already passed prior to prop 8. The law was created via the belief many years ago. And I agree, as does Eric that marriage shouldn’t be a law but left for churches and religion; therefore taken away from the government.

And the court decided that law was unjust.  You do realize Prop 22 and Prop 8 were different right? Prop 8 changed the wording of our state’s constitution so that you can continue to treat gays as second class citizens.  And churches already get to decide who they marry and who they turn away, so chill out already.

“So, I would like a reason why Prop 8 is ok that doesn’t have to do with God or the Bible.”

Ok, I will say this plainly. Eric stated this soo many times I can’t believe you didn’t get this but here it goes, ready? It’s the issue of church and state. That’s it. That’s the argument without God or the Bible. For a more specific answer I would explain (AGAIN) how the Bible (one of the oldest text, which is a religious book) first defined marriage and society/government adopted the definition. Therefore, it is an issue between church and state.

How was that without God or the Bible??

“And right here you say yourself that homosexuality is no different then lying and adultery, so why are cheaters allowed to marry?  Why are liars?”

The Bible never stated that liars and cheaters aren’t allowed to marry. This shows your ignorance of the Bible (and I mean this not in a mean way) but just because you are a sinner, doesn’t mean you can’t marry. That would mean that NO ONE could marry if the Bible stated that, so your logic is flawed.  Lastly, your claims about cheating and lying seem to come from some underlying issues…..you stated earlier that your husband is a liar and that he would be at a strip club if you weren’t married. I hope that your statements don’t forgo telling us that he is a cheater too. If you’re dealing with these personal/subjective issues, then I would advise you both to seek help. Other than that, I hope my post gave you some insight.

I never claimed to know anything about your bedtime story, I prefer Harry Potter.  And for God’s sake get over my husband.  All your post did was make me amazed at your stupidity & hatred and scared for your children.

PS~Please do not use Deuteronomy 7:3-4 as a verse towards “bigotry” because it has NOTHING to do with race or ethnicity. It has to deal with believers marrying nonbelievers. A correct interpretation that is interpreted through scripture and through reading the chapter will show it speaks about those who are in communion with God, must have no communication with the unfruitful works of darkness.  So please do not state that this verse is bigotry verse, it has nothing to deal with race or creed and is on par with 2 Corinthians 6:14 that states: “Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?”

I only used it that way because it is the verse people throw at me when telling me my marriage is against the Bible.  Don’t get mad at me, you kindly pointed out my ignorance on the matter; get mad at your fellow Bible thumpers.

Dear B, reading your entire comment made it obvious why you didn’t leave your name.  Don’t tell me how great your religion and beliefs are and then be a HUGE bitch!  It is NOT helping your cause.  Also, if you are going to reply, please try to refrain from just talking in circles about the Bible.  You graduated from college right, so show me you know ANYTHING besides the Bible.

Moonstruck Mommy